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Post by Sidekicker4 on Feb 8, 2005 0:17:50 GMT -5
On saturday the wife took me to work and the zuki ran fine, well she calls me a half before she has to pick me, no start, the engine cranks, the solenoid sparks, the sparkplugs spark(looks weak though),timing appears to be good, wires in the 1342 position on the cap,well I put new plugs, wires, cap, rotor, fuel filter on it and still no start? I need some help, the tech at the mechanic's shop next door couldnt seem to help me so,, I am hopin that someone can step up and give me sugestions or know how to fix it, Thanks in advance
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sapien
Full Member
the shaggin' wagon
Posts: 179
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Post by sapien on Feb 8, 2005 1:21:47 GMT -5
you might have the infamous dead ECM -- does one of the relays under the dash make a clicking sound when you try to start the engine?
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Gman
Counts zuks instead of sheep
Posts: 530
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Post by Gman on Feb 8, 2005 4:45:22 GMT -5
Here is an article, I wrote a while back, for a four door 16V owner with similar problems:
Won't Start Your Info tells me you have a 16 valve Engine, Right? The First Question Is: What were the conditions when it first stopped running or first failed to start? See I wonder if it failed before the Timing belt repair or immediately after or after a while of driving. Anytime I get a Tracker/ Sidekick that Appears to have a new water pump or some indication of the timing belt being messed with ... I pull the crank pulley and Timing cover and check (reset) the tensioner pulley ( to prevent jumping time later on) because There are just too many of them incorrectly installed. When I get one that Is sluggish taking off and something seems wrong and/or the distributor timing is way off to one side (instead of near the middle of the slot) , I assume the timing belt has jumped one notch or was just not lined up right upon last installation. Next Question: Have you tried REPLACING The ECM with one out of a similar, running vehicle? Testing one might not reveal an intermittent problem, It may not check for the fuel pump circuit as you would think or the tech guy may not really know how do it. Correct me If I'm wrong, Guys, but In a failure to start issue, when the starter is turning it over properly, and there are no other factors such as recent repairs, recent collisions, weather such as flooding or extreme cold, or even a former problem with electrical fire (and maybe less than perfect repairs of the electrical) . Whew! ... That having been said... Here's the order I would use: ECM, Fuel Pump, Fuel Pump Relay, Fuel filter, Injectors (8 valve throttle body models). As in Earlier text, I advise getting a suitable replacement ECM. The ideal would be a 94, 95 4 door parts car, I don't think a 2 door model will help you unless its a 95 WITH the 4WD option cause they came with the 16 valve engine that uses a single wide plug on the ECM (the 8 valve engines used a smaller yellow plug AND a green plug at the ECM) The ECM Is located directly behind the front left Speaker. It is not yet necessary to remove the speaker unless you are sure you need to remove the ECM. I use a flash light to look straight up under the area to read the ECM #. I have most of the #'s used on 2 Door Models thru 95. Again they (my List) will only work on 4 door models with the 8 valve engine. Disconnect the ground cable at the battery, and proceed to compress the clip and remove the ECM cable. It should reach down enough to plug to your "known to be good ECM." Use a Jumper wire to ground the "hanging ECM" to the metal dash brace. I'd leave this arrangement until the engine starts and runs before swapping back the original unit. The fuel pump has to run and build up pressure as soon as the ignition is on. So I would Remove the Gas Return line and replace with similar gas line leading to a empty gas can. Also crawl under the engine with two 17mm end wrenches and loosen (let some gas out) of the pressure line from the tank. Its located near the right motor mount. Retighten and head for the Ignition switch. With conditions fairly quiet you should be able to hear as the Fuel pump runs briefly to restore pressure and fuel into the system. This will tell you more about the fuel delivery system's condition. The pump is likely good if a bit of fuel reaches the gas can!!! More as Needed. I've tried to detail for the other readers.
Jeff
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Post by Sidekicker4 on Feb 8, 2005 19:57:10 GMT -5
One of the things I tried was something the parts guy told.\, spray some carb cleaner in the intake and try to start it, if it fires up then you problably have a fuel problem, otherwise eh didnt know what else to tell me, so anyways, I tried sticking my head under the dashboard while trying to start my zuki up, is it a certain clicky sound? I heard 2 different clicky sounds, so not sure if the clicking wasnt the turnin of the key or soemthing else seems like t here is a click that follows the first click(how cliquey )
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sapien
Full Member
the shaggin' wagon
Posts: 179
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Post by sapien on Feb 9, 2005 0:03:47 GMT -5
it's a fast, usually continuous clicking sound from just having the key on in position II, that's a telltale sign of a dead ECM (it's even in one of the troubleshooting charts in the GM service manual, that's how I figured it out when it happened to my '93). when you turn the key on before cranking it energizes the fuel pump, but when that circuit in the ECM goes bad, it makes the relay click. you can even feel it vibrating.
but depends on which vehicle you have, this seems to be a more common failure on the 2-door/8-valve models.
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Post by Denver on Feb 9, 2005 15:03:32 GMT -5
Good day Iv'e seen a few this winter lose connection to the fuel pump.b Behind the left rear signal light is a cannon plug of wires. Jumper the pink with a black tracer around the plug. The pins get corroded and can't make a good connection. Denver
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94box
Senior Member
Posts: 305
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Post by 94box on Feb 10, 2005 19:04:46 GMT -5
thanks for the point denver,
94box.
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Post by Sidekicker4 on Feb 10, 2005 19:17:23 GMT -5
Thank's guys for all your input, unfortunately I will not be able to troubleshoot her til this weekend or next, if there are any other tips or ideas, please feel free to add your input
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Post by Sidekicker4 on Feb 13, 2005 16:03:53 GMT -5
well the relay is not clicking or vibrating, I tried switching relays, no change, tried spraying starting fluid, in the intake, which brings my next question, how do I know if I have multi-port or throttle body? I am not aware of the differences, my haynes manual says some 1992 -1995 have multi and throttle body? I don't hear the fuel pump 'whirring' when I turn the ignition on position 1 or 2, so would anyone say that it sounds like the fuel pump?
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Post by louthepou on Feb 13, 2005 16:51:58 GMT -5
To figure out what you have in terms of engine (besides seeing if you have four connectors hooked up to individual injectors on the MPFI engine intake): home.golden.net/~haida/suzuki/tech/tips/id.htmlQuickly, if it's a pre-96 2 door, it's a throttle body fuel injection. For the rest, see the chart on the page, it's very interesting data. (While there, check out other pages. That's originally how I found this Forum). Hope this helps, Louis
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Gman
Counts zuks instead of sheep
Posts: 530
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Post by Gman on Feb 13, 2005 17:34:39 GMT -5
If his is a '94 or older 2Door , then it must have an 8 valve engine.
If his '94 Is a 4Door , Then With 4WD, its a 16 Valve... like your's, Louis.
READERS NOTE : '95's BOTH TRACKER AND SIDEKICK ARE 16VALVE (IF EQUIPPED WITH 4WD)...The 8 valve carried over only in the 2wd models (2door, '95's)
Every one, So far I've seen, Says 16 valve on the Timing cover as well as on the Valve cover...
Jeff
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Gman
Counts zuks instead of sheep
Posts: 530
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Post by Gman on Feb 13, 2005 17:43:41 GMT -5
Sidekicker4, You can't expect to hear the Fuel pump If no Fuel has been removed from the system (Between the pump and the Manifold). It'll be on and off so fast ...
Jeff
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Post by Sidekicker4 on Feb 14, 2005 0:48:22 GMT -5
Sidekicker4, You can't expect to hear the Fuel pump If no Fuel has been removed from the system (Between the pump and the Manifold). It'll be on and off so fast ... Jeff Actually, having the wife turning the key off and on,(without starting ) I can listen by putting my ear at the fill port with the cap off, that's how I arived at my conclusion or are you saying that is disputable? Darrell
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94box
Senior Member
Posts: 305
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Post by 94box on Feb 15, 2005 14:53:19 GMT -5
hello sidekick:
if i may jump in with my two cents, i think that is a valid method in listening to see if the fuel pump pressurizes as you describe.
my opinion, however,
94box. (zoltan.)
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Post by louthepou on Feb 15, 2005 19:38:05 GMT -5
I thought the fuel pump (the electrical one that is, just in case there are Sidekicks with mechanical ones) was always on, and excess fuel returned to the tank through return lines. I may be wrong.
Louis
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